Lawyers for Wills Probate , Estates Administration and Wills Disputes & Incapacity Planning in Victoria & the Capital Region District, B.C. Canada

Probate lawyers in Victoria BC, on map of BC and Canada with photo of BC Legislature Building in Victoria in background as well as 12 lawyers experienced in Wills, Probate,estate administration, wills disputes, incapacity planning - CLICK TO LAWYER PROFILES
Patrick Bion, experienced with wills, probate, estates & incapacity planning - in addition to  40 years  business-commercial law practice
Patrick Bion,
BA LLB
Founding Partner, Principal

40 yrs. practice:
Business law,
Estate administration,
Real estate
Wills trusts & incapacity planning
Michael O'Connor, King's Counsel KC, experienced in wills probate & disputes as well as a  civil litiigation practice in  VictoriaMichael
O'Connor,
BA LLB
K.C.

Principal,
Real estate,
Civil litigation
Creditor's remedies
Wills Estates litigation
Employment law
Michael Mark, wills & estates disputes / litigation lawyer in  Victoria serving clients as far away as  United Kingdom
Michael
Mark,
BA LLB

Principal,
Wills Estates
litigation
Civil litigation,
Real estate
N. Nima Rohani, JD practice includes wills & estates,  Creditors' Remedies, Estate Administration, Real Estate, Wills, Trusts & Incapacity Planning, Residential Tenancy Branch Disputes and Hearings  click for more info
N. Nima
Rohani
BA LLB

Principal,
Business law,
Creditors' remedies,
Wills & estates
Real estate
Reid Fraser, JD practice includes wills and estates - click for more information
Reid
Fraser
BSc. J.S.

Principal,
Wills, Trusts,
Family law, Employment,
Medical malpractice
Creditors' remedies
Dirk Ryneveld, King's Counsel, experienced in administrative law, international criminal prosecutions at the  Court in the Hague, and wills and estates, click  for more information and contact
Dirk
Ryneveld
KC

Wills Estate Admin.
Medical Malpractice
Real Estate
Civil litigation
Nicholas D. McKnight
Nicholas D. McKnight, BA LLB

Civil litigation, Real estate, Estate admin. Estate litigation, Wills trusts & incapcity planning
Charlotte Salomon,  K.C., retired Dec. 31,  2024  as principal fr.  firm McConnan Bion O'Connor Peterson
Charlotte
Salomon,
K.C.

Principal
RETIRED
Dec. 2023

for wills file queries contact Nicholas McKnight,
Stewart Johnston, LLB
Stewart
Johnston,
LLB

RETIRED
2023-2024
Business & Real Property Law
Wills, Trusts & Estate Admin.
Charlotte Salomon, KC

CHARLOTTE A. SALOMON, K.C.

RETIRED Dec. 2023

"Charlotte provided (fr. 1996-2023) her clients with a wealth of knowledge and experience in the areas of wills, estate administration, and personal injury litigation. She also practised in property transactions, including real estate conveyance, foreclosure, and expropriation." [quote from McBOP.com profile]

In 2008 she became a principal of McConnan Bion O'Connor & Peterson. She was bestowed the honorary title of Queen's Counsel, or Q.C. in 2016 the Q.C. became King's Counsel. on the passing of Queen Elizabeth




BION, LLB

PATRICK EDWARD BION
Business-Commercial Services Lawyer
B.A. (UVIC - 1970), LL.B. (UVIC - 1973)

Patrick practises in the wills, estates, and estate planning areas.  He also has extensive experience in real estate development, complex commercial transactions, financing, incorporations and advising small business generally.

Patrick is one of the three founding principals of McConnan Bion O'Connor & Peterson and has practised with the firm since 1975.

McConnan Bion O'Connor & Peterson Law Corporation
Suite # 420 - 880 Douglas Street,
Victoria, B.C. Canada V8W 2B7
Phone:  250-385-1383    Toll free:  1-888-385-1383
Email Pat Bion:  pbion@mcbop.com
Web Site:  www.mcbop.com//patrick-e-bion
Map to office:www.lawyers-bc.com/img--maps/victoria/McBOP-Victoria-street-map.html



What Are Representation Agreements?
and
Powers of Attorney?

Michael Mark, wills disputes, wills variation act, estate litigator,  lawyer wearing court robes in Victoria B.C. office

This information is provided courtesy of the wills & estates lawyers at McBOP.com


Representation Agreements - Reference Info

  • Authorizes and empowers another person (your representative) to make health care and personal care decisions of you, including a decision regarding "life support"
  • Allows you to identify the type of health care and personal care decisions your representative can or cannot make
  • Allows you to specify under what circumstances or events the representative may exercise these powers
  • Permits a person under diminished capacity to empower a representative to make routine financial and health care decisions for that person
  • Can include provisions to appoint a monitor to ensure your representative carries out your health care and personal care wishes
  • Can include power to act in financial or legal matters, as if under a general power of attorney
  • Survives subsequent incapacity

Must be in a form that meets prescribed signing and witnessing requirements


Powers of Attorney - Reference Info

  • Permits adults to grant authority to another person (the "attorney") to act on legal or financial matters on behalf of the adult
  • Can be general or specific as to the legal and/or financial matters covered
  • Can be expressed to survive any subsequent mental infirmity (an "enduring power of attorney")
  • Can name more than one attorney, to act together, or provide for an alternate attorney
  • Is automatically revoked on the death of the grantor
  • Is a useful and popular estate planning and management tool
  • Avoids expensive applications to court to appoint someone (a "Committee") to act on your behalf in the event you are incapacitated
  • Does not extend to making health care or personal care decisions

Must be in a form that meets prescribed signing and witnessing requirements

Michael Mark, wills disputes, wills variation act, estate litigator,  lawyer wearing court robes in Victoria B.C. office

Contact MICHAEL R. MARK, BA, LL.B. at McConnan Bion O'Connor & Peterson Law Corp. for more information on the above services.





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Footnotes & Archive notes


Definition of "E S T A T E"

1.  What is included in my estate?

Generally, assets that are in your name would be included in your estate.  Exceptions are assets that you hold jointly with another - those assets will go to the surviving owner, and assets for which you are able to designate a beneficiary - such as RRSPs and insurance policies.  The dollar value of the assets actually in your name that are not held jointly or designated to a beneficiary form the assets that comprise your estate, and it is the dollar value of those assets that are used to calculate probate fees.


Definition of "P R O B A T E"

Probate......What is meant by the term "probate"?

Probate is the court order that is issued by the Supreme Court of British Columbia allowing your executor to "execute" the provisions of your will.

Probate is the legal sanction to your executor to carry out the terms of your will and distribute your estate in the manner described in your will.Your executor requires a Grant of Probate before he can obtain control of a number of the assets in your estate including investments held in financial institutions, real estate and the like.

Once the Grant is obtained, an executor can then proceed to liquidate the estate in preparation for distributing it as set forth by your will. If there are persons that have an entitlement under the Wills Variation Act to make application to vary your will, the executor must wait 6 months from date of probate prior to distributing your estate or alternatively, obtain the consent of all those persons who are entitled to apply and/or named in the will to an earlier distribution.

An executor must also obtain a Clearance Certificate from Revenue Canada before wholly distributing your estate.

3.  How much are probate fees in the province of British Columbia?

Probate fees are calculated on the value of your estate, at date of death, in accordance with the following formula:
GO TO www.ag.gov.bc.ca/legislation/shareddocs/wesa/qa.pdf





N. Nima Rohani, principal at McConnan Bion O'Connor, Peterson

N. NIMA ROHANI

Nima was born and raised in Victoria .... Has a degree from the University of Victoria, in anthropology and a law degree from Australia's James Cook University.

His solicitor practice is primarily in real estate law and construction law, as he has had hands-on experience working with trades, engineers, and home owners

His practice areas include:


N. NIMA ROHANI,
Partner,
McConann Bion O'Connor & Peterson Law Corp.
Suite # 420 - 880 Douglas Street,
Victoria, B.C. Canada V8W 2B7
Phone:  250-385-1383    Toll free:  1-888-385-1383
Web Site: www.mcbop.com/lawyer/n-nima-rohani/
E-mail: nrohani@mcbop.com






Reid Fraser, BSc. LL.B.

REID FRASER, J.D.

Reid was born in Victoria and has been active in the community all of his life. Upon returning home Reid completed his articles with McConnan Bion O'Connor & Peterson working in both the litigation and solicitor practice groups.

In his first year of practice Reid has represented clients at all levels of court in British Columbia and has trial experience in both the Provincial Court and Supreme Court of British Columbia.

Practice Areas
· Real Estate
· Civil Litigation
· Creditors Remedies
· Estate Litigation
· Family Law
· Personal Injury
· Medical Malpractice
· Wills, Trusts & Incapacity Planning

Education
· Bachelor of Science (B.Sc.), University of British Columbia (2013)
· Bachelor of Laws (LL.B.), James Cook University, Honours First Class (2016)
· Certificate of Qualification, National Committee of Accreditation (2017)

Call to the Bar
· British Columbia Bar, 2018

Awards
· Top of Class, Contract Law, James Cook University (2014)
· Masters of Coursework, James Cook University (2016)

REID FRASER,
Barrister & Solicitor,
McConann Bion O'Connor & Peterson Law Corp.
Suite # 420 - 880 Douglas Street,
Victoria, B.C. Canada V8W 2B7
Phone:  250-385-1383    Toll free:  1-888-385-1383
Web Site: www.mcbop.com/lawyer/reid-fraser
Email: rfraser@mcbop.com



Nicholas Devon McKnight, BA UVIC,


NICHOLAS D. McKNIGHT
B.A., LL.B.


Nicholas maintains a hybrid practice as both a barrister and solicitor. In his solicitor's practice, Nicholas regularly advises on a wide range of real estate and business matters, including contract drafting and negotiation, acquisitions and dispositions, estate planning and administration, and commercial leasing. In the realm of litigation, Nicholas' primarily practices in matters relating to commercial disputes and estate litigation.

Nicholas represents clients at all levels and is committed to providing his clients with practical, efficient, and responsive advice.

When not in the office, Nicholas can be found on the golf course or spending time with his family."  [quote fr. McBOP.com firm website 2024.01.03]

Nicholas D. McKnight,
Barrister & Solictor
McConnan Bion O'Connor Peterson, Law Corp.
Suite #420 - 880 Douglas Street,
Victoria, B.C. Canada V8W 2B7
Phone:   250-385-1383
Toll free:  1-888-385-1383

Web: www.mcbop.com/lawyer/nicholas-d-mcknight
Map to office:www.lawyers-bc.com/img--maps/victoria/McBOP-Victoria-street-map.html




The Capital Regional District, CRD, includes the Municipalities of:
Central Saanich / Colwood / Esquimalt / Highlands / Langford / Metchosin / North Saanich / Oak Bay / Saanich / Sidney / Sooke / Victoria / View Royal (on southern Vancouver Island) and they in turn ar part of the Electoral Areas of: Juan de Fuca, Southern Gulf Islands, and Salt Spring Island. (see [www.crd.bc.ca/govlink.htm for more information]


Victoria Bar Association
"... The Victoria Bar Association (the "VBA") is the local bar association in Victoria, British Columbia.
The Association acts as a liaison between the lawyers of Victoria and other institutions such as the Courts, government, and the University of Victoria Faculty of Law. It also works closely with the Law Society of British Columbia, the Canadian Bar Association and other legal organizations.
The VBA provides scholarships for students and contributes to law related charities.
The VBA also organizes 4 dinner social events and a number of sporting events each year that are generally well-attended by its members and guests.
[quote 2009.01.11 vicbar.com]


Canadian Bar Association, Civil Litigation - Vancouver Island Section
"... What We Do
Deals with law, which regulates the jurisdiction of the courts in civil matters and the procedures for the conduct of civil cases and the enforcement of judicial decisions of a civil nature.
Join this Section and play a role in shaping legislation and government policy..." [quote 2009.01.11 www.cba.org/BC/s_civil_visl




Michael Mark, Victoria wills / estates disputes lawyer

MICHAEL R. MARK, BA, LL.B.

Preferred areas of practice in civil litigation include:  estate litigation (e.g. wills variation), personal injury, and commercial disputes.

If you have been treated unfairly by a deceased parent or spouse under the terms of his or her will, consider obtaining the advice and assistance of an experienced estate litigation lawyer.  Wills can be varied by the court to ensure adequate, just and equitable provision for a spouse or child of the deceased.


Challenging Provisions of a Will & Estate Litigation

A child or spouse of a person who dies leaving a will can challenge the provisions of will and seek a variation pursuant to the Wills Variation Act.

The court will consider whether, in all of the circumstances, the deceased person (testator) made adequate provision for the claimant under the terms of the will.  The considerations are wide and varied, but they include the nature of the relationship between the testator and the claimant, the size of the estate, and the relative needs of the other beneficiaries to the will.

Claims must be made within 6 months from issuance of probate of the will. 

Probate is the process in which the executor of the will probates or proves the will to the court.  If a child or a spouse is not satisfied that the will makes adequate provision for him or her, legal advice ought to be obtained promptly so that legal action, if warranted, may be commenced in a timely way.


Michael Mark, wills disputes, wills variation act, estate litigator,  lawyer wearing court robes in Victoria B.C. office

Michael Mark has extensive experience in both civil litigation and in criminal litigation as a Federal prosecutor in drug, and complex tax evasion prosecutions.

Michael has practiced in Victoria since his admission to the Bar in 1991 and he became a principal at McConnan, Bion, O'Connor & Peterson Law Corporation in January 2000.  He is also a past executive member of the Victoria Bar Association.

Michael Mark, LLB - Estate Litigation / Wills Lawyer
Senior Partner
McConnan Bion O'Connor Peterson Law Corp.
Suite #420 - 880 Douglas Street,
Victoria, B.C. Canada V8W 2B7
Phone  250-385-1383   
Toll free  1-888-385-1383
E-mail:  mmark@mcbop.com

Web Site:  McBOP.com/michael-r-mark
Map to office:www.lawyers-bc.com/img--maps/victoria/McBOP-Victoria-street-map.html




see also Representation Agreements vs Powers of Attorney




Michael O'Connor, King's Counsel, experienced in the area of wills & estates law and wills litigation

MICHAEL JAMES O'CONNOR, KC
B.A. (UVIC - 1971), LL.B. (UBC - 1974), Admitted to the BC Bar 1975

Michael has been a senior partner at McConnan, Bion, O'Connor & Peterson since 1976. Michael's preferred areas of practise include wills, estates and conveyancing, as well as all forms of civil litigation, including personal injury claims, expropriation, property tax assessment appeals and contract disputes.

Michael chaired the highly successful Capital Campaign of the Greater Victoria Hospital Foundation s/a Foundation, "Together We Care", raising 17 million dollars for the hospitals on Southern Vancouver Island.  He is a member of the CH Channel 6 Community Advisory Board [s/a en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHEK-TV] and a Trustee of the British Columbia Government House Foundation (www.ltgov.bc.ca).  He has held several executive positions with several sports bodies at the local, Provincial and National levels.  He is the Vice Past Chairman of the 1994 Commonwealth Games www.commonwealthgames.ca held at Victoria, BC.

Michael J. O'Connor, QC
McConnan Bion O'Connor & Peterson Law Corporation
Suite # 420 - 880 Douglas Street,
Victoria, B.C. Canada V8W 2B7
Phone:  250-385-1383    Toll free:  1-888-385-1383

Email:  moconnor@mcbop.com
Web Site:  www.mcbop.com/lawyer/michael-j-oconnor-k-c/

Map to office:www.lawyers-bc.com/img--maps/victoria/McBOP-Victoria-street-map.html




Dirk Ryneveld, King's Counsel, civil litigation practice includes estate administrative and regulatory law, brings experience as former BC Police complaints commissioner and international criminal court at the Hague to both private and governement clients

DIRK RYNEVELD, K.C.

Dirk currently has a varied litigation practice advising both private and government clients on administrative law and civil litigation issues.  He is primarily engaged as senior external counsel for the Civil Forfeiture Office of the BC Ministry of Justice.

His areas of practice include:
· Civil Forfeiture for the BC Ministry of Justice
· Personal Injury
· Real Estate
· Wills
· Estate Administration

Dirk Ryneveld, K.C. joined the firm of McConnan Bion O'Connor & Peterson in Victoria as Associate Counsel in June 2009, after a six-year term as Police Complaint Commissioner for BC.  Prior to that, Dirk was a Senior Trial Attorney from 1999 - 2003 at the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia at the Hague, where he conducted several war crimes trials and also was lead counsel for the prosecution of the Kosovo component of the Slobodan Milosevic trial.

He has also appeared at all levels of court in British Columbia and the Supreme Court of Canada, as Deputy Regional Crown Counsel from 1974 - `1999.   Dirk was appointed as Queen's Counsel in 1990.

DIRK RYNEVELD, K.C.,
McConann Bion O'Connor & Peterson Law Corp.
Suite # 420 - 880 Douglas Street,
Victoria, B.C. Canada V8W 2B7
Phone:  250-385-1383    Toll free:  1-888-385-1383

Web Site: https://www.mcbop.com/lawyer/dirk-ryneveld-k-c/
Street Map:  down town Victoria location near Court House




STEWART JOHNSTON, LLB, Senior Associate Counsel, McConnan Bion O'Connor Peterson

STEWART JOHNSTON, LLB
Senior Associate Counsel

His practice focuses on business and corporate law, real property law (including development and leasing) and estate planning.

Stewart was founding Chair of the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority and of the Victoria Esquimalt Harbour Society, past chair of Tourism Victoria, former co-chair of the Tourism Working Group of the Pacific North West Economic Region, and past Chair of Skwin'ang'eth Se'las Development Company - a not-for-profit corporation aimed at incubating entrepreneurship among members of the Songhees and Esquimalt Nations.

Stewart is Commander of the Victoria Commandery of the Sovereign Order of St. John of Jerusalem, Knights Hospitaller.  He has served on several not-for-profit boards including the Greater Victoria Chamber of Commerce, the Art Gallery of Greater Victoria, the Art Gallery of Greater Victoria Foundation, the Victoria Symphony Society, and the Camosun College Foundation.  In addition to the honour of knighthood in the Sovereign Order, Stewart has received an honorary citizenship from the City of Victoria, the Miracle Award from Tourism Victoria, and life membership in the Greater Victoria Harbour Authority.

Practice areas:
· Business Law
· Real Property Law
· Wills, Trusts & Incapacity Planning
· Estate Administration

STEWART JOHNSTON, Senior Associate Counsel
Barrister & Solicitor,
McConann Bion O'Connor & Peterson Law Corp.
Suite # 420 - 880 Douglas Street,
Victoria, B.C. Canada V8W 2B7
Phone:  250-385-1383    Toll free:  1-888-385-1383
Web Site: www.mcbop.com/lawyer/stewart-johnston
E-mail: sjohnston@mcbop.com





Probate Reference Information


COURTHOUSE LIBRARIES B.C.

The following information is quoted from the web site below, and noted on their website - last updated Sept. 08, 2022

https://www.courthouselibrary.ca/how-we-can-help/our-legal-knowledge-base/where-can-i-find-wills-and-probate-records

Where can I find wills and probate records?
Last Revised September 08, 2022

Wills

It is a requirement of the wills probate process that a search for a wills notice be completed.

A wills notice identifies that a will has been registered and describes the person who has made the will, where the will is located, and the date of the will.

Anyone is eligible to conduct a search of wills notice of a deceased person.

To be eligible to conduct a search of wills notice for a person who is living, you must be the person themselves or a lawyer. [emphasis added]

The BC Archives holds wills probated in British Columbia between 1861 and 1981. The wills indexes and the wills on microfilm are self serve and open for access in the reference room. The 1981 wills are in hardcopy and stored off-site.

Probate

Probate/estate files include the proceedings of all business relating to:

  • the proving of a will, in cases where there was one, or
  • the ultimate settling of an estate in instances where the individual died intestate (without leaving a valid will).

Probate files were usually created and maintained by the court registry closest to the residence of the deceased person or the executor of the will. While the contents may vary, many files contain a copy of the will, if there was one. A typical file might contain:

  • copy of the will,
  • death certificate,
  • inventory of belongings,
  • claims from creditors, and general family and financial information.

Probate case files and other records for estates probated in Victoria between 1859 and 1992, and in Vancouver between 1893 and 1992, are available at the British Columbia Archives.

FOR MORE INFORMATION GO TO:
https://www.courthouselibrary.ca/how-we-can-help/our-legal-knowledge-base/where-can-i-find-wills-and-probate-records



Who Practices What Areas of Law, Where, For Whom, Why, and for How Much?
What is the world of lawyers and the world of law about? 
This is a layperson's sampler site - a starting point!

This resource area is a collaboration of many people including lawyers, retired judges, notaries, health and social service professionals currently in practice who received their legal/professional training in different countries including: China, Canada, the United Kingdom, the U.S.A.


Credits, Copyright, Dedication & Inspiration

The area of wills, estates and trusts administration on LawyersWorld.org is in part inspired by multiple people and sources including with historic impact on some of this web site's developers:

LawyersWorld.org

Legal Information Reference Sites

Metro Vancouver Lawyers

Ferhad Sean Amiri JD, wills and estates lawyer fluent in <b>Dari & Farsi (Persian), Pashto, Urdu & Hindi - his office is at MetroLaw, LLB in Metropolis at Metrotown mall across from the Superstore checkouts
FERHAD SEAN
AMIRI JD (U. of Ottawa)
Practices: Family Law, Real Estate, Wills and Estates, Corporate Law, Employment Law, Immigration and Personal Injury.  He is licensed to practice law both in British Columbia and Ontario
Fluent in Dari & Farsi (Persian), Pashto, Urdu, Hindi
आव्रजन वकील
Website: metrolaw.ca
Metropolis at Metrotown Mall,
Burnaby, B.C.


Florence T. Wong, BA LLB
RETIRED 2019
Assisted clients in fluent Chinese Cantonese, Mandarin
 加拿大移民律师 or English with
* Wealth Management Planning
* Probate / Estate Administration
* Trusts    * Wills   * Probate
Vancouver, BC



Mark Perry, former counsel with Public Guardian of BC office  assisting major  changes in legislation around  adult guardianship roles, is now in private practice as a wills and estates disputes lawyer in Metro Vancouver

Wills-& Estates Litigation
Mark Perry, LLB 
#504 - 1367 West Broadway Vancouver, BC, V6H 4A7
Web: westsidefamilylaw.ca/pages/contesting-a-will




Vancouver Wills & Estates Lawyers Listings

Lawyers-BC.com https://www.lawyers-bc.com/ wills/willlawy.htm




Frank Baily, experienced wills and estates lawyer, particularly in area of wills disputes and litigation, is based in Metrotown mall office Tower

Wills & Estate Planning / Wills Disputes
Frank Baily, BSc LLB
RETIRED 2021
Metropolis at Metrotown Mall 900 - 4720 Kingsway, Metrotower II Burnaby, B.C.
Baily McLean, barristers & solicitors
BMGM.com





see also San Francisco California USA Directory of Wills Probate & Trusts Lawyers at Metrotown.info-San Francisco





Medical Malpractice settlements samples from Bruce Lemer, medical malpractice lawyer in downtown Vancouver, click to his website BruceLemer.com







Paul Scambler, QC Queen's Counsel,  experienced wills and estate administration lawyer , also  skilled mediator in  wills disputes

PAUL SCAMBLER, QC
RETIRED 2020

 · Wills & estate administration
 · Wills disputes mediator

Paul Scambler, QC
RETIRED 2020
CLAY and COMPANY
Lawyers & Mediators
837 Burdett Avenue
Victoria, B.C.
V8W 1B3 Canada

Phone: (250) 386-2261
Toll-free: 1-877-688-9634
Website: Clay.bc.ca

see alsoWeb Profile: Lawyers-BC.com






Richard Morris, experienced wills & estates lawyer based in Arizona - also  is  licensed Calfironis licensed attonrey

USA, Arizona & California:  Wills, Probate, Trusts, Guardianship
Richard Morris, B.Sc. Ph.D. J.D. , Attorney in Arizona & California
Morris Law Firm,Pllc
RETIRED - Oct. 2014
* see his article and video about Rouen Court House in France, visited by Morris on his travels france/french-courts-buildings.html
* see also his Linkedin web info at https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-richard-morris-ba17b041 which in part records: "...Retired Attorney Morris Law Firm, pllc
Sep 2014 - Present 9 years 5 months
Phoenix, Arizona
Richard W. Morris, now retired, was a lawyer licensed in Arizona, California and the United Kingdom of England and Wales, is a member of Mensa, a former teacher and adjunct professor in economics. He holds the academic degrees of Bachelor of Science in Business Administration with a major in economics, Juris Doctor, and Doctor of Philosophy in Business Administration. During his half-century in aviation (airline transport pilot, flight and ground instructor licenses), he flew as..."